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Flailing Wildly
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Interesting Factoids

by Ryan Parman • September 30, 2004 • Political • 7 comments

The one thing that irritates me most is when people just believe whatever they’re fed by the media. Issues regarding the current war tend to fall into this basket, as millions of people are simply regurgitating what they hear from the liberal propaganda machine.

I get really irritated when I see people with bumper stickers that say “Re-Defeat Bush”. He was never defeated in the first place, moron. If he had been, he wouldn’t have become President. Yes, the election was close, but he was never defeated. The Supreme Court ruled in a 5-4 vote in favor of Bush. If you don’t like Bush, that’s fine. But don’t be a moron about it—make intelligent choices.

I received this from a friend of mine, and thought it was interesting. I’m not saying that I’ve verified everything here, but if these statistics are true, then Bush is doing a great job in office. Maybe you don’t like him ’cause your a Democrat. Fine, then use that as your excuse to want to get rid of him. But this war cannot be one of those reasons.

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January. In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That’s just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

When some claim President Bush shouldn’t have started this war, state the following;

F. D. Roosevelt led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden’s head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but…

It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation.

We’ve been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick (with a young lady inside ).

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military moral is high! The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.

I just hope that people who’ve taken the time to study the issues and the candidates will be at the polls in November. I also hope that the people who don’t know very much about this election will just stay home, since they obviously don’t care enough about it anyways.

Ryan Parman

Ryan Parman is an entrepreneur, open source evangelist and passionate usability advocate currently living in Seattle. He is the founder and visionary behind SimplePie and CloudFusion, co-founder of WarpShare, member of the RSS Advisory Board, and creator of the AWS SDK for PHP. Ryan's aptly-named blog, Flailing Wildly, is where he writes about ideas longer than 140 characters.

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Discussion

Keith

September 30, 2004

Hey, don’t take this the wrong way but an unattributed quote full of facts you haven’t verified doesn’t really seem any better than biased media to me. Although I do agree that people should not rely on the media to educate them on the issues. The thing you don’t mention is that it goes both ways, I’ve got problems with both the liberal media and the conservative media.

And anyway, accurate or not, the quote you published doesn’t mean a whole lot unless we know from whence it came.

As well I’m not sure how relevant they are to why people might have a problem with how Bush is running the war. Some people maybe…but…I have problems with how Bush is running the war and none of these fact address those problems in any way, shape or form.

I’m still not exactly sure why we went to war with Iraq and sometimes I’m not sure if Bush himself knows. It also disturbs me that so many people have died in Iraq since we “won” the war.

Wars are complicated things and I’m not sure comparing the Iraq war to these others says a whole lot.

As well, saying that if those facts are true it shows that Bush is doing a great job is a bit of a stretch. I would hope that if he is doing a great job there’s a whole lot more than that to back that up.

 

Independent observer

October 1, 2004

Hmmm. Afganastan never attacked US; we attacked them. Iraq never attacked US; we attacked them. Bush says Iraq had WMDs: none found. Bush says Iraq Al Qaeda are linked: no links found. Bush turned Iraq into a quagmire, with a demonstrable lack of post-war investment and planning. Bush went to war without UN consent. And your friend’s point is…?

 

Ryan Parman

October 1, 2004

Keith —

I’m not necessarily a fan of liberal/conservative media propaganda either, but I suppose you can always go through an encyclopedia and verify the statements.

First of all, it seems that one of the major reasons why Kerry even has a chance at the White House isn’t because he has any terrific merits of his own, but rather because he’s not Bush. He’s been riding the resentment-over-the-war wave for a while, but there’s not much (in my eyes anyways) that makes him that much better.

As far as how this war should or shouldn’t affect Bush’s standing in the polls, all of the former presidents mentioned were Democrats, including Clinton, who many liberals believe to have been a great president, even though some of the things he did were no better.

Now, granted there might be descrepancies as far as the reasoning of the war, but if you’re not going to hassle Clinton (or any of these other presidents) about war, then you can’t hassle Bush about it.

It should be mentioned, I suppose, that I’m not a big fan of this war either. I don’t feel like spending $87 Billion to help rebuild a nation full of people who hate me just because I’m an American, and are killing the troops who are trying to help them, and not get killed. I say that if they all want to act the way that they are, then we should just pull out and let them all kill themselves. Of course, I feel the same way about Los Angeles much of the time.

The people who have died since we “won” the war, were people who were willing to die, if need be. If you’re joining the military for a paycheck, then you’re joining for the wrong reasons. Being military means that you are willing to put your life on the line for your country. And it’s not like Bush is killing our military off, the Iraqui’s are. And they’re killing us because they don’t want us there, but they don’t want a destroyed country or a Dictatorial leader either. How on earth do we please everyone given these circumstances?

Finding WMD was not the only reason for going in. People say that Saddam had no ties to al-Quaeda, but he’s still a terrorist, and he was still killing his own people, just because…. We’ve stopped him, and are in the process of trying to build a better Iraq. Maybe there are still some questions with fuzzy answers, but overall, this has been a success.

Independent observer —

Afghanistan was Taliban-ruled, and the Taliban had direct ties to bin Laden’s al-Quaeda network. If you remember, Bush simply asked the Afghani goverment to turn over Osama. They wouldn’t. He said “Turn him over, or we’ll go to war with you. It’s your choice.” They chose war.

Bush said, because Bush was told by his advisors, that Iraq had WMD — among other terrorist-related reasons for going in and overtaking Saddam.

Iraq is hardly a quagmire. Compared to Vietnam, absolutely not. But we are planning to move out as soon as everything is stable. This isn’t still war, but we’re rebuilding their country while they’re trying to kill us.

“… went to war without UN consent.” What ever happened to National Soverignty? Who says we need permission to do what we feel is necessary to protect ourselves and our allies by preventing a future disaster? I believe it was British Prime Minister Chamberlin who sat down and had a talk with Adolf Hitler, and came to the conclusion that he was harmless, right before he overtook Czechoslovakia. Would it not have been better to grab Hitler when they had the chance, before he started another war?

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m not entirely sure what your point is. Care to clarify?

 

josh

October 1, 2004

Ryan, Let me start by saying I agree with you but I must also say that Keith has a point. The writer you quoted needs to be Identified to give the document any credibility firstly. Also the sources for the numbers must given to strengthen it’s message. With out those two things it’s just one persons word against another which keeps us talking in circles.

Keith, with regard to the election this year, since you seem to have a problem with Bush going to Iraq at all you should have that same problem with Kerry then. Last night during the presidential debate, Kerry said that he too “viewed Saddam as threat”. He, along with many others, VOTED TO GO TO WAR. If going to war is your issue with Bush then you have that same issue with Kerry.

“Independent Observer”, Firstly if you want anyone to take what you have to say seriously you should give your name.

Secondly, I think you must not understand why we attacked Afghanistan. They were harboring the terrorists. The president said something to the effect that anyone who harbors the terrorists and protects them will be subject to their same fate.

Also, who says we need the UN’s consent? They are not our government! They do not rule us! We are a sovereign nation. If they want ally with us then great but if not doesn’t me we can’t go and certainly doesn’t mean we shouldn’t.

 

Keith

October 1, 2004

Before I respond, I want to note that I’m not heavily in favor of either Bush or Kerry. I’m not a liberal, a democrat and I’ve not seen any movie by Michael Moore. I’m an American who is displeased with how the country has been going, on many levels the war in Iraq not being a HUGE concern of mine, and I do not blame it all on Bush. Only 80%…I’m kidding.

As well, I don’t have real confidence in either Bush or Kerry lead us to where I think we should be. Let’s face it, it doesn’t matter who’s fault it is but things haven’t been exactly peachy keen for the good old USA recently. I’m just concerned how we’re going to right the ship.

Anyway, a few things…when I talk about people dying in the war I don’t necessarily limit that to Americans and military. Lots of innocents have died in the war as well. So not everyone chose to be there. Let’s realize that we are living in a world that is growing smaller every day and get over the us vs. them mentality. No matter what side your one that’s not going to get us anywhere.

As well, to me it doesn’t feel much like a success. Maybe on some levels (we got Saddam), but in the main I don’t think so. Then again, like I said, I’m not sure exactly what all the reasons for invading Iraq were, exactly.

I’m not even saying I was against it, as Josh implied, just that it’s very fuzzy to me as to our reasoning. I could have very well had the same questions for Kerry, but he’s not the Commander in Chief right now.

As to your point about Clinton, I’m not sure how he got thrown into this, so I’m not going to go there. That’s something that bothers me about Bush and the people that support him, they’re always bringing up thing’s from way back and using them as a basis for comparission. I think life is a bit more complicated than that.

He did it in the debates last night and you did that here, a few times. I’d really like to concentrate on the present (Iraq isn’t resolved yet and calling it a success now, in my mind, is ridiculous) and the future.

What’s done is done, we need to move forward. I may vote for Kerry, but I’m not going to be one of those “the world is over” if he loses people.

 

Andrew

October 3, 2004

Ryan,
I’m not going to say much about the propaganda in your post, other than post the equivalent from the opposing view: George’s resume.

“… a nation full of people who hate me just because I’m an American, and are killing the troops who are trying to help them, and not get killed.”

Not get killed??! You must only be watching your own country’s media interpretation of the war. Have a look for news from other parts of the world to get a fairer idea of how many totally innocent civilians are ‘not getting killed’…

 

Ryan Parman

October 4, 2004

Andrew —

On the first point, I should say that whereas these “factoids” can be verified as factual by reading an encyclopedia, your “resume” contains information that is either inaccurate, or largely speculative. Somewhat entertaining to read, though. =)

On the second point, you seem to have misunderstood what I had written. Let me clarify: “…killing the troops who are trying to help them, and [who are also trying to] not get killed.” I know that there are innocent people who’ve died… it’s a sad part of war. I’m not happy about it, and I don’t believe everything that comes through American news stations. I actually get about 95% of my news from online rather than from TV.

I don’t think that Bush is perfect… obviously not. I do think that he’s doing a mediocre job as president. But Kerry isn’t all that great either. I see G-Dub as the lesser of the two evils.

I’m a relatively moderate conservative as far as American politics goes, but I know that I’m on the far-right compared to Europe and other overtly liberal areas. I think that this post pissed some people off. This isn’t something that I feel very strongly about, so I’m willing to apologize for it. It makes for an interesting discussion though, doesn’t it? I hope nobody carries any hard feelings away from this.

 

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