And anyway, accurate or not, the quote you published doesn’t mean a whole lot unless we know from whence it came.

As well I’m not sure how relevant they are to why people might have a problem with how Bush is running the war. Some people maybe…but…I have problems with how Bush is running the war and none of these fact address those problems in any way, shape or form.

I’m still not exactly sure why we went to war with Iraq and sometimes I’m not sure if Bush himself knows. It also disturbs me that so many people have died in Iraq since we “won” the war.

Wars are complicated things and I’m not sure comparing the Iraq war to these others says a whole lot.

As well, saying that if those facts are true it shows that Bush is doing a great job is a bit of a stretch. I would hope that if he is doing a great job there’s a whole lot more than that to back that up.

I’m not necessarily a fan of liberal/conservative media propaganda either, but I suppose you can always go through an encyclopedia and verify the statements.

First of all, it seems that one of the major reasons why Kerry even has a chance at the White House isn’t because he has any terrific merits of his own, but rather because he’s not Bush. He’s been riding the resentment-over-the-war wave for a while, but there’s not much (in my eyes anyways) that makes him that much better.

As far as how this war should or shouldn’t affect Bush’s standing in the polls, all of the former presidents mentioned were Democrats, including Clinton, who many liberals believe to have been a great president, even though some of the things he did were no better.

Now, granted there might be descrepancies as far as the reasoning of the war, but if you’re not going to hassle Clinton (or any of these other presidents) about war, then you can’t hassle Bush about it.

It should be mentioned, I suppose, that I’m not a big fan of this war either. I don’t feel like spending $87 Billion to help rebuild a nation full of people who hate me just because I’m an American, and are killing the troops who are trying to help them, and not get killed. I say that if they all want to act the way that they are, then we should just pull out and let them all kill themselves. Of course, I feel the same way about Los Angeles much of the time.

The people who have died since we “won” the war, were people who were willing to die, if need be. If you’re joining the military for a paycheck, then you’re joining for the wrong reasons. Being military means that you are willing to put your life on the line for your country. And it’s not like Bush is killing our military off, the Iraqui’s are. And they’re killing us because they don’t want us there, but they don’t want a destroyed country or a Dictatorial leader either. How on earth do we please everyone given these circumstances?

Finding WMD was not the only reason for going in. People say that Saddam had no ties to al-Quaeda, but he’s still a terrorist, and he was still killing his own people, just because…. We’ve stopped him, and are in the process of trying to build a better Iraq. Maybe there are still some questions with fuzzy answers, but overall, this has been a success.

Independent observer –

Afghanistan was Taliban-ruled, and the Taliban had direct ties to bin Laden’s al-Quaeda network. If you remember, Bush simply asked the Afghani goverment to turn over Osama. They wouldn’t. He said “Turn him over, or we’ll go to war with you. It’s your choice.” They chose war.

Bush said, because Bush was told by his advisors, that Iraq had WMD — among other terrorist-related reasons for going in and overtaking Saddam.

Iraq is hardly a quagmire. Compared to Vietnam, absolutely not. But we are planning to move out as soon as everything is stable. This isn’t still war, but we’re rebuilding their country while they’re trying to kill us.

“… went to war without UN consent.” What ever happened to National Soverignty? Who says we need permission to do what we feel is necessary to protect ourselves and our allies by preventing a future disaster? I believe it was British Prime Minister Chamberlin who sat down and had a talk with Adolf Hitler, and came to the conclusion that he was harmless, right before he overtook Czechoslovakia. Would it not have been better to grab Hitler when they had the chance, before he started another war?

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m not entirely sure what your point is. Care to clarify?

Keith, with regard to the election this year, since you seem to have a problem with Bush going to Iraq at all you should have that same problem with Kerry then. Last night during the presidential debate, Kerry said that he too “viewed Saddam as threat”. He, along with many others, VOTED TO GO TO WAR. If going to war is your issue with Bush then you have that same issue with Kerry.

“Independent Observer”, Firstly if you want anyone to take what you have to say seriously you should give your name.

Secondly, I think you must not understand why we attacked Afghanistan. They were harboring the terrorists. The president said something to the effect that anyone who harbors the terrorists and protects them will be subject to their same fate.

Also, who says we need the UN’s consent? They are not our government! They do not rule us! We are a sovereign nation. If they want ally with us then great but if not doesn’t me we can’t go and certainly doesn’t mean we shouldn’t.

As well, I don’t have real confidence in either Bush or Kerry lead us to where I think we should be. Let’s face it, it doesn’t matter who’s fault it is but things haven’t been exactly peachy keen for the good old USA recently. I’m just concerned how we’re going to right the ship.

Anyway, a few things…when I talk about people dying in the war I don’t necessarily limit that to Americans and military. Lots of innocents have died in the war as well. So not everyone chose to be there. Let’s realize that we are living in a world that is growing smaller every day and get over the us vs. them mentality. No matter what side your one that’s not going to get us anywhere.

As well, to me it doesn’t feel much like a success. Maybe on some levels (we got Saddam), but in the main I don’t think so. Then again, like I said, I’m not sure exactly what all the reasons for invading Iraq were, exactly.

I’m not even saying I was against it, as Josh implied, just that it’s very fuzzy to me as to our reasoning. I could have very well had the same questions for Kerry, but he’s not the Commander in Chief right now.

As to your point about Clinton, I’m not sure how he got thrown into this, so I’m not going to go there. That’s something that bothers me about Bush and the people that support him, they’re always bringing up thing’s from way back and using them as a basis for comparission. I think life is a bit more complicated than that.

He did it in the debates last night and you did that here, a few times. I’d really like to concentrate on the present (Iraq isn’t resolved yet and calling it a success now, in my mind, is ridiculous) and the future.

What’s done is done, we need to move forward. I may vote for Kerry, but I’m not going to be one of those “the world is over” if he loses people.

“… a nation full of people who hate me just because I’m an American, and are killing the troops who are trying to help them, and not get killed.”

Not get killed??! You must only be watching your own country’s media interpretation of the war. Have a look for news from other parts of the world to get a fairer idea of how many totally innocent civilians are ‘not getting killed’…

On the first point, I should say that whereas these “factoids” can be verified as factual by reading an encyclopedia, your “resume” contains information that is either inaccurate, or largely speculative. Somewhat entertaining to read, though. =)

On the second point, you seem to have misunderstood what I had written. Let me clarify: “…killing the troops who are trying to help them, and [who are also trying to] not get killed.” I know that there are innocent people who’ve died… it’s a sad part of war. I’m not happy about it, and I don’t believe everything that comes through American news stations. I actually get about 95% of my news from online rather than from TV.

I don’t think that Bush is perfect… obviously not. I do think that he’s doing a mediocre job as president. But Kerry isn’t all that great either. I see G-Dub as the lesser of the two evils.

I’m a relatively moderate conservative as far as American politics goes, but I know that I’m on the far-right compared to Europe and other overtly liberal areas. I think that this post pissed some people off. This isn’t something that I feel very strongly about, so I’m willing to apologize for it. It makes for an interesting discussion though, doesn’t it? I hope nobody carries any hard feelings away from this.